The Bounce Rate Podcast

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Music.

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We’ve got Eric. We’ve got James. Eric, James, how are you doing?

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I feel like I haven’t seen you guys in a while.

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Well, that’s because you were gone. I was gone, and apparently Roger was gone,

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too. Roger was gone. I’m, like, happy because I forgot how much I like you guys.

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Oh, man. Wow. 20 points. Wow. That’s 20 points. I mean, yeah.

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That’s not… Yeah. That man?

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Yeah. That makes my day. There’s only one group I like more than y’all,

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and that is our listeners who are listening to this right now.

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They really get my engine going.

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They’re the sunshine that gives the energy to our chlorophyll as we do photo.

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I’m going to not count because you know them all. It’s like your girlfriend and your mom.

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Well, do I need two hands now to count? Because there’s three of us.

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So I do think we can get up to 10 listeners.

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I promise. I look at the numbers and unless it’s all of our extended family,

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We do have more than 9 or 10.

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We are the fastest. I saw the statistic, actually.

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We are the fastest growing podcast coming out of 1445 Langham Creek. I think that’s true.

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Yeah. That’s a good stat. Yeah. I mean, it is big time. Big time.

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Today is a fun day because we’re going to talk about something that is exciting

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for a lot of companies and also scary for a lot of companies.

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We so what is our budget for the podcast do we know yes it’s it’s all it’s all

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time there’s there we’re spending a lot of time because that’s certainly a part of budgeting.

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Opportunity cost i’ll tell you the the cost to produce this podcast is 10 to

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20 million dollars per episode so i mean it’s i mean the production value so

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i mean you don’t get this kind of production value on nothing. That’s true.

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But, well, there’s a budget to make it, but then there’s a budget potentially

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to get it out there and spread the word and market it and advertise it.

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Which we’re not doing yet. And there’s a budget for the whiskey. Yes.

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I thought we weren’t going to talk about that. James is exactly right.

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And we’re going to talk about that today. Our experience with marketing budgets,

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what are some pitfalls that people run into? We’re going to talk about how to get started.

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If you’re like, well, I don’t even have a budget.

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I barely have enough money to run my business. Well, there’s good news.

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You can make a marketing budget with whatever you have. So we’re going to talk about that today.

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Yeah, I think that’s good because when I ran my agency, that question would come up a lot.

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Small business owners are out there. They don’t really know what other small…

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Some of them do because they spend a lot of time researching,

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but a lot of them are just in their silo doing their thing.

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And they’re curious, right? So how much should I be spending on marketing?

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And I do think that answer can vary depending on businesses.

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But just where I said it here, the national average for a small business is 5% to 10%. Of what?

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Of gross revenue. Oh.

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So not like the attractive revenue, just the gross revenue. Just the gross revenue.

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Gross revenue. How many- Wait, so what does that translate to?

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Can you name a business type, what their annual sales might be for a local business,

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and then kind of what that actually translates to.

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I’m going to go with Subway because I heard, I read an article the other day

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and it was talking about how Subway, the average Subway makes about $60,000

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profit a year. I was blown away because that seems- 60 profit?

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Yes. Yeah, that’s what the owner operator takes home. Right. Yeah.

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So I don’t know what the gross revenue is, but- So I heard,

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the stat I’ve heard is that Chick-fil-A, An individual Chick-fil-A location,

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it comes close to $7 to $8.5 million a year. I believe it. In total revenue.

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I believe that. And the stat that I’ve heard, this is from Quick Serve Restaurants,

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the marketing group, or the corporate, ah, my God, not a corporate agency.

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What are they? Trade group. The trade group, they estimate that that’s about

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a 10% take-home for the owner. us.

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Yeah. I mean, it is crazy, right? So most restaurants are nowhere near that.

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Most businesses are not near that on an annual basis.

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So you’re looking, there’s no small business that can really make it on less

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than about 1.5 million revenue a year.

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It’s hard. It’s really hard because the margins aren’t there.

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So let’s just make it easy. $1 million, what’s 5% of 1 million?

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$50,000. Oh, wow. That was fast. That was good. Oh, man.

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I mean, I was a finance major. Did you know that? I did not.

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I sure was. All right. So, okay. Here. No, but I mean, that was a long time ago.

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That was a long time ago. $50,000. What is that as a monthly budget then?

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That would be $4,000 something.

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I’ll go with $4,000 something. To be fair, this is seventh grade. Yeah.

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Well, he didn’t say he graduated seventh grade. He just says he’s a finance major.

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So, so I mean that, but I think 4,000 a month, if you think about that,

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that’s a lot of money for most businesses.

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Yeah, I would agree. I mean, and obviously we’re looking at,

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well, we’re not, we’re saying a million dollars. So yeah.

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Yeah, I think that’s a decent budget. When I ran my agency, just to share with

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everybody, I worked with quite a few small businesses. I also worked with larger ones.

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But I would say the average for my customers, the small businesses,

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was about $1,000 to maybe $4,000 a month.

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And so here’s the question, not the A, here’s a question for you guys.

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So let’s assume it is $4,000 a month, just roughly guessing. What does that include?

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Well, here’s the thing about small businesses. I don’t think most of them like

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look at their revenue, their gross revenue, and then say, okay,

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this is the amount I’m going to spend. I think Chick-fil-A probably does, right?

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A very successful and organized organization, but a small business,

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I mean, you know, I think they throw out things.

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Sometimes they’re spending more. Sometimes they’re spending less.

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I don’t think a lot of them think about it that way, but I think it’s a good

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way to, to identify like, Hey, I should spend, you know, maybe you’re not spending

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4,000, maybe you’re spending $2,000. Now, what do I do with that, right?

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Yeah, what are the buckets, I guess? So if I’m spending $4,000 a month,

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that’s got to kind of break up into some buckets.

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One bucket is I may spend for the actual advertising, right?

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I might be paying a, let’s see if I can think of an advertising agency that

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has kind of unconventional print products that really target local.

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I don’t know. There’s one, I think, called Indoor Media.

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So I might actually pay them specifically to get my ad out there.

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I might pay Google to list my company.

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What are some other buckets though? There’s print ads, as you mentioned. There’s digital ads.

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Social media. Social media. So I kind of kind of, but that’s all ad spend.

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So I’d kind of want to call that as one bucket, right? As ad spend.

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Yeah. Are there other places where I might spend my marketing dollars?

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I think one could argue that publicity, that isn’t necessarily an ad,

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could fit in that. PR. Events.

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Giveaways. Giveaways. So giveaways are a big one for a lot of,

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like, especially when you’re doing community engagement, giving away stuff from

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your business to somewhere, sponsorships.

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For example, you see all the time, like you come to Los Tios Mexican restaurants

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by my house and my kids went to a school and they have like a night where you

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go there and a percentage of that money goes back to the school.

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That’s very popular, but that is a form of marketing and advertising.

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Absolutely. There’s another bucket that it’s not really the same kind of bucket as all that stuff.

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It’s a different, you use a different measure. All those buckets we talked about

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were dollars. What’s the other bucket? Time. Yeah.

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You know, I like to think of opportunity costs because, I mean,

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your time is valuable, especially being a small business owner.

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Yeah. Well, I think that brings a good point. And that is, what are we actually

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accomplishing from marketing?

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Because when I have a small business and I’m trying to sell pizzas,

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I might just be measuring in terms of how many pizzas that I sell.

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But a marketing budget can cover a number of different things.

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Number one, it can cover branding, which is important. It might not mean a direct

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sale, but it’s still pretty crucial.

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It covers direct response, which is sales, which is, am I actually selling pizzas?

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And you can measure it in loyalty. How many people do I have that are regular

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customers? How many people are in my point of sale database?

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How often are they coming in? That data is extremely important,

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and you need to allocate resources to track it.

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Wait, wait, wait. I got a question for our finance major. Oh, gosh. Here we go.

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All right. Did you take accounting? I did. Okay, good.

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So we’ll ask this in the form of a Jeopardy question.

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It is the name of a charity as well as the value that a community places on a business.

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It’s not like a, it’s not a dollar amount. Oh, I know what it is.

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Goodwill. You do not understand Jeopardy.

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What is Goodwill? I got it first. Goodwill, Goodwill. Yes. Yes.

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Yeah, yeah. True. So, so, so Goodwill is, is, is a huge thing.

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So when you’re talking about like branding and generating a,

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recognition of your brand and getting the name out there and so forth,

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that’s building goodwill.

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That’s a long-term investment in your business, as opposed to maybe another

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type of brand or advertising, which we tend to call direct response,

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is you’re trying to get the customer freaking in the door right now.

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Yeah, I agree. And Roger hit on something pretty good because we’re talking

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about how much should I spend on my budget? What should I do with my budget?

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And then how do you know if it’s working, right? I mean, those are different…

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God, I wish there were a podcast episode on those three things.

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I know, I know. Well, good luck. Good luck. Good luck mining that.

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Well, and I think too, I think this kind of goes down.

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If you’re a business, there’s a fundamental question you have to decide if you

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believe in. Do you believe in marketing and advertising or do you not?

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I came across that many times. Some people are very skeptical and they’re always

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trying to measure everything and they’re just on edge about it.

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Then there’s people like, I know marketing works because it works on me.

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And so I’m going to allocate money to it. And I’m going to do the best I can

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to measure it with the time I have.

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You know what I mean? Now, I might edit this out because this was a talking

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point that I was going to have for the other one. But I think it’s still worth talking about.

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And that is, has anyone ever heard of Disney pixie dust? Nope.

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Yes. Kind of. So pixie dust is the colloquialism term for cocaine.

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It’s the term. No wonder, you know, just kidding.

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It’s the term for when something happens and a cast member gives you a little

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something extra to help make your experience at Disney better.

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They don’t advertise pixie dust.

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You’re never going to see an ad that says, hey, come to Disneyland.

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We’ll have pixie dust. But what happens is you have a pixie dust moment and

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you tell people, oh, my gosh, my Disney vacation was great.

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They even gave me a free pair of socks or whatever.

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Another one that kind of popped out at me was Dick’s Last Resort.

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Ever heard of this place?

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So Dick’s Last Resort is a restaurant, I think, in Dallas.

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Is that where they’re mean? Yeah. Where the waiters are really mean to them.

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Oh, yeah. I have never seen a ad for Dick’s Last Resort, but I have heard people

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talk about it my whole life.

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So those little things like word of mouth, they might not even,

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you might not even spend money to spread the word about that.

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But if you put attention on it, you can still spread that. And it’s marketing.

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I mean, that is marketing, right? I mean, so going back to your point is there’s

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a lot of people that may not believe in quote-unquote traditional marketing

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like running ads, but that’s not what marketing is. Right.

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Marketing is not necessarily running. If you’re running ads,

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it should be part of marketing plan. But just because you’re doing marketing

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doesn’t mean you’re running ads.

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I’ve got a pixie dust story. Oh, okay. Wait, no. Yeah, no, it is pixie dust.

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It’s not the cocaine. Okay.

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This story may not make sense at all for this podcast, but I do want to tell the story.

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So last Saturday, we were doing a bunch of moving for my dad.

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It was late. It was like 645.

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I’m doing this huge good deed, taking care of my parents. I’m driving home.

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I got a flat tire, of course, because no good deed goes unpunished.

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So we pull into this totally sketch 24-hour tire repair.

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And there’s a guy replacing somebody’s tire.

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And so we’re waiting in line. And as I’m waiting there, another car creeps in.

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And the tire store is connected to this absolutely, totally sketchy convenience store.

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And it’s like the glass is kind of foggy.

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I mean, you can vision it, right? I can see it. So the next couple that comes

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in, they’re waiting for their tire. We get out, we’re chatting.

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Turns out they’re from Baton Rouge. They’re headed through Houston.

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I think they’re going to the whole country. They got a slow leak.

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And it turns out it’s the guy’s birthday. I was like, what?

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Of course. Right. So I get my tire replaced.

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I pull out so they can pull in. And I happened to notice that he had gone into

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the convenience store and bought a beer and he was having a beer for his birthday.

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So I pulled out, I stopped, I ran into the convenience store.

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I bought a six pack of Shiner Bock.

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I came back out. I put the six pack in his hand, took one bottle out,

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clinked him, said happy birthday and walked off. Dude.

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And so I gave him- Rock star. I gave him the pixie dust experience. Man.

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Yeah. So now, I don’t know that’s going to help my business.

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I was hoping it would help karma, but maybe this guy owns a small business somewhere.

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Yeah. Man, I feel like I got to go do that.

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Random act of kindness. Yeah. Drink it forward, y’all. Drink it forward.

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Yes. That’s a good story. Yeah. So I think the point going back to is that marketing

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is so much more than doing advertising. Yeah.

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Another quick thing, because we’re going to talk about what mistakes people make.

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And I worked for a company at one point, and we had a very niche target.

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And that is we would.

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We would sell, we provided a service to government entities,

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specifically first responders.

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So our target was super small and they were not the type of people that were ever online.

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So we would, you know, work with a search engine marketing company.

00:15:34.650 –> 00:15:39.010
And, you know, those people will always say, oh, to get any traction on search

00:15:39.010 –> 00:15:42.330
engine marketing, you’re going to have to reach your 5,000 minimum.

00:15:42.330 –> 00:15:46.430
We’re going to have to spend $5,000 on the ads.

00:15:46.850 –> 00:15:51.690
And we spent $5,000 with them for months and months and months.

00:15:51.890 –> 00:15:56.230
And we didn’t get one person looking, you know, clicking on an ad.

00:15:56.470 –> 00:16:01.610
So even like throwing money at something is not always going to be the answer.

00:16:01.770 –> 00:16:04.990
Sometimes you’re in a niche and SEM is not for you.

00:16:05.290 –> 00:16:09.570
Well, if I can jump in, I love that story because when I ran my agency,

00:16:09.570 –> 00:16:11.250
I came across that situation all the time.

00:16:11.830 –> 00:16:17.930
So, and this is something that people do a lot. So you spent money on SEM, like search marketing.

00:16:18.430 –> 00:16:21.110
It didn’t work out. So you’re like, search marketing doesn’t work,

00:16:21.130 –> 00:16:25.010
but maybe the people doing it for you didn’t do it right.

00:16:25.310 –> 00:16:28.690
Right. You know what I mean? Because I’ve done it for companies and they’re

00:16:28.690 –> 00:16:31.350
like, oh, it does work because you did it right. Right.

00:16:31.510 –> 00:16:35.330
So, you know, that being said, I just wanted to make that point.

00:16:36.310 –> 00:16:41.050
I guess when we go back to the budget, you want to find things that work and

00:16:41.050 –> 00:16:43.030
keep putting money into those, right?

00:16:43.710 –> 00:16:47.870
Registered tape ads work great for you. Don’t stop. But should you have a little

00:16:47.870 –> 00:16:52.990
bit of a budget to experiment with to find things that might also work really well?

00:16:53.150 –> 00:16:58.090
I think that depends on the mindset of the business owners, but I think that’s a great way to do it.

00:16:58.550 –> 00:17:01.670
And that was a mistake on our part for saying, all right, well,

00:17:01.750 –> 00:17:05.270
let’s just keep paying this five grand, because hopefully it’s going to come

00:17:05.270 –> 00:17:09.770
to fruition, instead of pausing and saying, okay, wait a second, what’s not working?

00:17:10.050 –> 00:17:13.710
Should we apply this five grand with another company? Should we take this five

00:17:13.710 –> 00:17:15.550
grand and spend it on a trade show?

00:17:15.730 –> 00:17:19.090
There’s any number of ways that you can do that. And just thinking,

00:17:19.290 –> 00:17:22.790
all right, well, let’s just throw money at it was a mistake that we made.

00:17:23.190 –> 00:17:28.630
Yeah, I think all that goes back to kind of something we hinted at the very beginning is.

00:17:29.703 –> 00:17:35.563
Is marketing an expense that you do each month or is it an investment for the future?

00:17:35.663 –> 00:17:40.763
Because we talked a little bit about branding as kind of being a signaling that

00:17:40.763 –> 00:17:45.903
you’re doing out there to the, you know, if you’re a realtor and you don’t have

00:17:45.903 –> 00:17:49.663
your name anywhere, you don’t have any houses listed,

00:17:50.123 –> 00:17:53.003
how do I know who you are? Why would I pick you?

00:17:53.163 –> 00:17:55.683
What’s your unique selling point? I don’t know anything about you,

00:17:55.763 –> 00:18:00.723
right? But if your name is all over a certain geography, that is a signal to

00:18:00.723 –> 00:18:03.223
me that this person’s successful in that neighborhood.

00:18:03.643 –> 00:18:09.203
Whereas an expense, I think of if I’m paying for an expense,

00:18:09.423 –> 00:18:11.003
I got to get something right back.

00:18:11.323 –> 00:18:14.523
So if I pay my light bill, I better be getting electricity.

00:18:14.643 –> 00:18:20.143
If I’m paying for search engine advertising, I better be getting something directly

00:18:20.143 –> 00:18:21.603
back. And it’s two different mindsets.

00:18:22.363 –> 00:18:26.363
Well, I like what you said there too, because you’re talking about the real estate. agent, right?

00:18:27.023 –> 00:18:30.803
Some real estate agents go, you know, they leave another industry and they come

00:18:30.803 –> 00:18:33.463
into real estate and they have money and they go out and they spend money on marketing.

00:18:34.063 –> 00:18:37.483
Some are younger or just, you know, they don’t have a bunch of money.

00:18:37.803 –> 00:18:38.923
And you know what they do have?

00:18:40.063 –> 00:18:43.883
Time, right? So that they could get out there in the community and go into networking

00:18:43.883 –> 00:18:47.463
events. That doesn’t really cost you a lot of money, but you can build connections.

00:18:47.703 –> 00:18:50.503
Same thing with a restaurant. If you’re newer and you’re leaning mean,

00:18:50.563 –> 00:18:54.763
you don’t have that money, you know, get a partnership with a school,

00:18:55.123 –> 00:18:56.783
right? Like go to the little league.

00:18:57.043 –> 00:18:59.403
You know what I mean? Those all fall under that bucket, right?

00:18:59.703 –> 00:19:04.863
Yeah, for sure. It reminds me, if you’re an old school marketer,

00:19:05.323 –> 00:19:10.723
there used to be an old saying about marketing, which is 50% of all marketing dollars are wasted.

00:19:11.223 –> 00:19:13.383
The problem is you don’t know which.

00:19:14.383 –> 00:19:19.303
And I do think that’s a little bit true. Digital marketing has this promise.

00:19:20.623 –> 00:19:24.623
Honestly, it just reminds me of the 2008 financial crisis.

00:19:24.843 –> 00:19:27.763
They’re selling us a bill of goods. Oh, these credit default swaps.

00:19:27.903 –> 00:19:30.503
They’re backed by mortgage securities. They can’t possibly go down.

00:19:31.603 –> 00:19:38.963
So it’s, look, we have the data. We know that James got a finance degree,

00:19:39.263 –> 00:19:44.483
plays the banjo, surfs, has two kids, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:44.483 –> 00:19:47.883
And so therefore, somehow, somehow mystically,

00:19:48.143 –> 00:19:56.103
we’re going to target your ad for surfing yoga, or no, Pilates on a surfboard

00:19:56.103 –> 00:20:01.043
that we know is just going to hit him, and it’s going to be exactly right, and he’s going to buy.

00:20:01.143 –> 00:20:03.803
That’s the promise. You’re the one running that ad. I am.

00:20:03.963 –> 00:20:07.003
I am. Yeah. And then not only do I say that I’m going to run the ad,

00:20:07.183 –> 00:20:11.683
I’m going to track him when he clicks on it, and then I’m going to see the conversion

00:20:11.683 –> 00:20:15.443
on your website when he fills out the form. And then I’ll know that he paid.

00:20:16.783 –> 00:20:20.903
And it’s all, a lot of that, I won’t say all, a lot of that is BS.

00:20:21.383 –> 00:20:23.843
Yeah, I agree. I think that’s a myth that we’ve been…

00:20:24.527 –> 00:20:27.947
Sold right like you think like everybody

00:20:27.947 –> 00:20:31.167
wants to track every single dollar to its 100 value

00:20:31.167 –> 00:20:37.287
and it’s you really can’t do that as a marketer i mean you can to to some level

00:20:37.287 –> 00:20:41.687
but there’s so much more in it and obviously if you’re an e-commerce store it’s

00:20:41.687 –> 00:20:47.347
a little bit easier on some ways but it’s just yeah i well i think that for

00:20:47.347 –> 00:20:51.007
me that’s why it’s such a privilege to get to work with local business owners.

00:20:51.267 –> 00:20:57.827
Because when I was graduating college, that’s when the housing market collapsed.

00:20:58.067 –> 00:21:04.527
And it’s been a scary landscape where there are companies that are purely online,

00:21:04.627 –> 00:21:09.827
online products, B2B, that do make a lot of money. But like you said, they’re scary.

00:21:10.027 –> 00:21:13.947
You’re like, there’s no location for this place. I don’t have a person that

00:21:13.947 –> 00:21:17.787
I can, this is just like a tech widget, I don’t know where these people are from,

00:21:17.967 –> 00:21:23.107
versus local businesses who, you know, they are a person, they’re a local celebrity,

00:21:23.107 –> 00:21:29.827
they are a pizza place, they’re a salon where you have a relationship with them.

00:21:29.947 –> 00:21:33.107
You are almost guaranteed to have a face-to-face relationship with them.

00:21:33.187 –> 00:21:39.327
So that stuff really matters to them in a bigger way than just a fly-by-night, you know, tech company.

00:21:39.767 –> 00:21:41.807
Okay. Just channeling Ken Jennings real quick.

00:21:42.627 –> 00:21:50.487
This, we’re going to do marketing terms for 600. This term means, I almost gave it away.

00:21:50.887 –> 00:22:00.067
This term is the process of tying a advertising campaign to its actual return on investment.

00:22:00.327 –> 00:22:04.727
What is attribution? Oh, congratulations. You have the control of the board. Yes. Thank you.

00:22:05.007 –> 00:22:09.667
Yeah. I would like to try Eric’s hobbies for 1,000.

00:22:11.667 –> 00:22:14.847
The the we’re we’re pg are we pg 13 what

00:22:14.847 –> 00:22:17.747
what are we i don’t know what we are let’s skip this guy yeah yeah

00:22:17.747 –> 00:22:21.647
sorry yeah uh pixie dust he loves

00:22:21.647 –> 00:22:28.627
he loves disney i can’t yeah anyway yeah so so no attribution that’s a big thing

00:22:28.627 –> 00:22:32.667
in marketing a lot of people especially local businesses and it’s hard because

00:22:32.667 –> 00:22:36.847
you don’t i mean when you think about uh a couple thousand dollars a month cash

00:22:36.847 –> 00:22:40.587
flow is king for a local business because so many businesses, like you said,

00:22:40.767 –> 00:22:43.387
that margin is really tight.

00:22:43.567 –> 00:22:48.427
And at the end of the day, it’s $2,000 that can be in my pocket as the owner,

00:22:48.467 –> 00:22:50.827
or it’s $2,000 that goes out the door.

00:22:51.107 –> 00:22:54.907
And so if it’s not, I mean, hey, that’s a lot of money.

00:22:55.711 –> 00:23:02.131
Could be in my pocket as opposed to going out. So that concept of attribution,

00:23:02.291 –> 00:23:04.071
everybody wants it so badly.

00:23:04.691 –> 00:23:10.331
And the challenge is marketing is not a transaction.

00:23:10.391 –> 00:23:13.771
It’s not an expense. It really is an investment.

00:23:13.891 –> 00:23:16.551
It’s something you have to do. You have to do it as a process.

00:23:16.791 –> 00:23:20.271
You have to do it just like you do your investment for retirement.

00:23:21.471 –> 00:23:26.411
There aren’t many people that buy one stock at the beginning,

00:23:26.531 –> 00:23:31.491
you know, when they’re in their 20s, keep it and then retire and that’s it, right? There aren’t?

00:23:32.031 –> 00:23:35.511
Crap. I’ll be right back, guys. You’ve got time. You’ve got time.

00:23:36.231 –> 00:23:39.871
So, I mean, you look at it and as you age, you change, you adjust,

00:23:40.051 –> 00:23:43.471
you make things different. You do accommodate your needs. Same thing for marketing.

00:23:43.691 –> 00:23:47.751
Well, so I love that you brought up attribution. I was, like you said,

00:23:47.831 –> 00:23:48.571
I was out of town last week.

00:23:48.691 –> 00:23:52.591
I was at a digital marketing conference and one of the speakers,

00:23:52.951 –> 00:23:58.151
she was a data scientist, really loved her talk, but it was all about this report

00:23:58.151 –> 00:24:01.251
that Google did a few years ago called the messy middle. Did you ever,

00:24:01.411 –> 00:24:02.151
have you heard about that?

00:24:02.451 –> 00:24:08.171
They spent a tremendous amount of energy looking at attribution and trying to track everything.

00:24:08.511 –> 00:24:12.411
And at the end of the day, they figured out you can’t, it’s just a mess.

00:24:12.631 –> 00:24:15.331
I mean, every, you know, last click first, you know, all these different things,

00:24:15.471 –> 00:24:18.831
like everybody cycles so different, behaviors are different.

00:24:19.031 –> 00:24:22.111
Like you’re trying to create this perfect sales funnel. It doesn’t really exist.

00:24:22.671 –> 00:24:28.171
This, oh, we’re going to do marketing events for, and we’re going to be in double jeopardy now.

00:24:28.311 –> 00:24:31.951
So marketing events for 1,000. Oh boy. Is this the Daily Devil?

00:24:32.271 –> 00:24:35.711
No, no Daily Devil, just because I want to open up to the whole board.

00:24:37.451 –> 00:24:44.311
This particular marketing has been blamed by Americans as being interference

00:24:44.311 –> 00:24:49.611
and has been attributed to causing major disruptions in our government.

00:24:49.611 –> 00:24:52.531
What is social media

00:24:52.531 –> 00:24:55.451
advertising yes correct oh you’re you

00:24:55.451 –> 00:24:58.091
boy yeah i know i got it you’re gonna really have to it’s not

00:24:58.091 –> 00:25:00.851
my it’s not my day you’re do you know

00:25:00.851 –> 00:25:05.091
how the clicker works that’s the click in i’ve heard also like maybe google

00:25:05.091 –> 00:25:09.771
participated as well and like you’re not allowing search results to show up

00:25:09.771 –> 00:25:13.311
like very interesting stuff oh there we go here we have the stuff the conspiracy

00:25:13.311 –> 00:25:19.431
coming i’m just saying geez yeah no don’t don’t trust the institutions We hear you, James. Okay.

00:25:20.971 –> 00:25:24.971
Well, I’ll say this little thing. So I worked for a company.

00:25:24.971 –> 00:25:26.031
I will not say what company.

00:25:26.091 –> 00:25:30.151
I worked for a company that did aesthetic marketing.

00:25:30.511 –> 00:25:32.331
They’re called plastic surgeons. Plastic surgery.

00:25:33.511 –> 00:25:36.871
And when I started, I…

00:25:37.806 –> 00:25:41.586
They wanted me to do Facebook ads and Facebook said, absolutely not.

00:25:41.586 –> 00:25:45.226
You cannot market medical procedures on Facebook.

00:25:45.426 –> 00:25:49.106
Well, I left that company to do something else for a while. And then I started

00:25:49.106 –> 00:25:54.486
at this other agency and they, one of their clients was, and then when I,

00:25:54.586 –> 00:25:56.146
you know, tried it again,

00:25:56.746 –> 00:26:00.946
they had, they’re already kind of loopholes, you know, wording loopholes and

00:26:00.946 –> 00:26:03.906
settings and stuff that you were able to get away, you know,

00:26:04.026 –> 00:26:07.446
with it, Which is understandable because as things evolve, you know,

00:26:07.486 –> 00:26:08.946
they go, well, we don’t want to give up the revenue.

00:26:09.266 –> 00:26:14.526
This is kind of a medical procedure. So, you know, it’s only natural that people

00:26:14.526 –> 00:26:17.726
find those loopholes and it probably grows out of control.

00:26:18.086 –> 00:26:23.586
Absolutely. So the reason I brought up election marketing specifically is,

00:26:23.726 –> 00:26:30.886
I mean, probably some of the biggest money on the planet is spent on political ads.

00:26:31.606 –> 00:26:34.746
I mean, I think that’s pretty safe. Yeah, sadly. Sadly, sadly.

00:26:34.906 –> 00:26:38.126
Right. I mean, well, maybe right behind pharmaceutical ads, probably.

00:26:39.286 –> 00:26:44.286
But like it’s, you know, school boards, independent school districts are having

00:26:44.286 –> 00:26:48.726
hundreds of millions of dollars spent just to get people on a school board of

00:26:48.726 –> 00:26:51.786
a small independent school district. Crazy amounts of money.

00:26:51.966 –> 00:26:55.706
So going back to this question of attribution, is it an investment?

00:26:55.866 –> 00:26:58.146
What’s marketing good for? Why do I spend the money?

00:26:58.646 –> 00:27:01.946
Think of all the money that is spent in politics.

00:27:02.366 –> 00:27:06.606
And then you have to ask yourselves, have you ever had somebody say,

00:27:06.966 –> 00:27:10.326
oh, well, they’re running all these ads. And you say, yeah, that doesn’t work on me.

00:27:11.466 –> 00:27:15.306
We’ve all done it. I don’t believe any of that stuff. And yet…

00:27:16.345 –> 00:27:18.245
Hundreds of billions, if not,

00:27:18.485 –> 00:27:21.925
I think probably hundreds of billions of dollars are spent on those ads.

00:27:22.605 –> 00:27:28.285
It’s working somewhere. I’ve not known a world without viral videos.

00:27:28.425 –> 00:27:33.605
So when I watch political stuff, I think, well, certainly just the best idea should win.

00:27:34.125 –> 00:27:39.025
Like certainly just, you know, put the best idea out there and that one’s going to rise to the top.

00:27:39.185 –> 00:27:43.345
And, you know, it’s 2025 and whether it’s politics, whether it’s,

00:27:43.345 –> 00:27:50.685
you know, private industry, budget still plays a huge factor in the success of something.

00:27:51.145 –> 00:27:56.805
Well, so, you know, you talked about political ads, right? They’ve been doing it for a long time.

00:27:57.085 –> 00:28:00.065
Yeah. They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work, right? It didn’t create influence.

00:28:00.285 –> 00:28:02.545
Well, I think it’s interesting, right?

00:28:02.665 –> 00:28:08.325
Because like we saw the Elon Musk most recently, he was offering the million

00:28:08.325 –> 00:28:13.725
dollars a day to anyone that was going to vote and signed the petition in,

00:28:13.905 –> 00:28:16.245
was it Wisconsin for the judge? Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:16.585 –> 00:28:22.585
And it didn’t work. And there’s a lot of counter cases where it turns out spending

00:28:22.585 –> 00:28:27.165
more money did not produce the outcome that the more money should have been.

00:28:27.385 –> 00:28:31.425
That doesn’t say that it doesn’t work, but that didn’t work.

00:28:31.665 –> 00:28:35.025
Well, yeah, that specific case didn’t work. But think about this though.

00:28:35.185 –> 00:28:40.105
Think about all the big brands that are visible every day of our life.

00:28:40.105 –> 00:28:44.465
How many big brands don’t spend money

00:28:44.465 –> 00:28:47.625
on marketing advertising right right i mean you know i think apple no

00:28:47.625 –> 00:28:50.465
starbucks held out no who some of them like hold

00:28:50.465 –> 00:28:53.605
out for a while either to do big stuff but eventually

00:28:53.605 –> 00:28:57.105
they all do it yeah you know yeah here’s

00:28:57.105 –> 00:29:01.625
a quadruple jeopardy oh all right did we skip triple oh wait we there’s the

00:29:01.625 –> 00:29:04.765
triple’s only for the celebrities we’re ordinary people all right quadruple

00:29:04.765 –> 00:29:09.125
we could be at final job we’re not we’re not ordinary quadruple jeopardy this

00:29:09.125 –> 00:29:14.525
thing increases in your life as money increases in your life.

00:29:15.400 –> 00:29:19.420
Increases in your life as money increases in your life.

00:29:20.040 –> 00:29:23.820
Oh, oh. What is more problems?

00:29:25.940 –> 00:29:29.960
Marketing’s a process. It’s more of an investment than it is an expense.

00:29:30.480 –> 00:29:36.540
Doug, the owner of Indoor Media, loves this saying, you don’t buy customers, you rent them.

00:29:36.720 –> 00:29:39.420
I love it. And there’s going to be attribution.

00:29:39.700 –> 00:29:43.480
That’s why you need to market and advertise is because at the end of the day,

00:29:43.480 –> 00:29:47.700
you have to replace the people that move, change to a competitor,

00:29:48.140 –> 00:29:50.500
die, whatever it is that they do, win the lottery and move.

00:29:51.180 –> 00:29:57.780
Number two, it’s not always going to be the case that you just throw some money

00:29:57.780 –> 00:30:04.240
at it, throw $500 at some sort of marketing campaign, and then look back and say,

00:30:04.440 –> 00:30:07.460
ah, that produced $3,500 in revenue.

00:30:07.580 –> 00:30:10.940
That attribution is really difficult in marketing.

00:30:11.580 –> 00:30:16.180
It’s even difficult with, if you think about branding, which is getting your

00:30:16.180 –> 00:30:19.360
name out, that’s obviously really hard to measure.

00:30:19.860 –> 00:30:21.940
Coke does it all the time. Coke

00:30:21.940 –> 00:30:25.960
does it so much brand, most recognizable brand probably on the planet.

00:30:26.180 –> 00:30:29.600
They do tons of branding. How do they measure that? Well, I don’t know.

00:30:29.700 –> 00:30:30.560
People drink a lot of Coke.

00:30:31.980 –> 00:30:35.380
Even when you do a direct response, right, which is in our case,

00:30:35.520 –> 00:30:38.740
usually a coupon, I can count all those coupons that come in.

00:30:39.860 –> 00:30:42.680
Hmm i do have to kind of think it’s nice

00:30:42.680 –> 00:30:45.860
i can kind of say well that was a sale well well did

00:30:45.860 –> 00:30:49.780
they buy more than they would have was this person coming in anyway did i get

00:30:49.780 –> 00:30:53.460
them to come one more time a month than they otherwise what i mean there’s a

00:30:53.460 –> 00:30:58.300
lot of factors that have to go into that if i’m successful it will feel successful

00:30:58.300 –> 00:31:01.640
it’s going to seem successful so that’s what i’d say is that attribution is

00:31:01.640 –> 00:31:05.720
actually pretty difficult we also know last takeaway for me,

00:31:06.140 –> 00:31:11.520
we also know that successful businesses almost always advertise.

00:31:12.120 –> 00:31:15.760
Let me reiterate, sorry, always market.

00:31:16.380 –> 00:31:23.560
Sometimes they advertise. So the example to that is there’s a little cafe around

00:31:23.560 –> 00:31:25.220
the building here called Freddy’s.

00:31:25.640 –> 00:31:29.760
Shout out to Freddy. They have a great menu. I love them. But every time I walk

00:31:29.760 –> 00:31:31.620
in, Vanessa says hi, right?

00:31:31.740 –> 00:31:34.400
They know who I am. They take time to greet me.

00:31:34.540 –> 00:31:37.980
They have super service. That’s their marketing plan because they know who their

00:31:37.980 –> 00:31:39.680
market is. It’s all the buildings around here.

00:31:39.800 –> 00:31:43.960
And then they don’t have really aspirations to turn that into a huge cafeteria or something.

00:31:44.220 –> 00:31:47.200
When I go to the grocery store, I just had mod pizza today.

00:31:47.460 –> 00:31:51.180
Yeah, I’d really like that coupon because it gets me to go mod a second time

00:31:51.180 –> 00:31:53.100
this month as opposed to going to a thousand degrees.

00:31:53.993 –> 00:31:56.793
Shout out to both Mod and Thousand Degrees. That’s right.

00:31:57.093 –> 00:32:00.133
And Mod and Thousand Degrees, if you’re not on the program right now,

00:32:00.273 –> 00:32:05.533
we will do a podcast from your pizza place. Yeah. Contact us. Yes.

00:32:06.473 –> 00:32:09.633
I think that sums it up. I’m in agreement.

00:32:09.873 –> 00:32:12.533
So to cap things off, let’s do a very quick thought exercise.

00:32:12.713 –> 00:32:18.773
And that is we’ve got Craig’s Pizza and two different versions of Craig’s Pizza.

00:32:19.093 –> 00:32:24.913
One, Craig’s down on his luck. He’s down to his last 100. He’s got one Benjamin

00:32:24.913 –> 00:32:28.473
Franklin that he can use for a monthly marketing budget.

00:32:28.653 –> 00:32:35.473
In another parallel universe, he has an uncle that just passed away and bequeathed

00:32:35.473 –> 00:32:37.413
him lots and tons of money.

00:32:37.413 –> 00:32:43.853
So now in that world, he has $10,000 to spend in a month on marketing.

00:32:44.153 –> 00:32:50.133
The question is, how should he strategize the $100 versus how should he strategize

00:32:50.133 –> 00:32:55.813
the $10,000? He runs a pizza place in his general state.

00:32:55.873 –> 00:32:58.553
He’s in the suburbs. All right, I’m ready.

00:32:59.133 –> 00:33:03.373
All right, let’s do it. Okay, if I have $100, I’m running Craig’s Pizza.

00:33:03.613 –> 00:33:05.493
Hi, my name is Craig. A hundred dollars.

00:33:06.073 –> 00:33:09.733
I’m going to give a hundred dollars that month to whichever staff member gets

00:33:09.733 –> 00:33:11.353
mentioned the most on Google reviews.

00:33:11.993 –> 00:33:18.313
Okay. That’s good. That’s deploying your staff, which is a huge aspect of marketing

00:33:18.313 –> 00:33:23.893
that is already included in your expenses. So that’s a great strategy.

00:33:24.333 –> 00:33:27.733
Honestly, I’m going to be lame. I’m going to agree with Eric here because- That’s lame. Yeah.

00:33:28.033 –> 00:33:32.233
And every time someone comes in, I’m going to say, sign up for our loyalty program.

00:33:32.353 –> 00:33:34.773
And at the end of the month, we’re going to draw a $100 winner.

00:33:34.993 –> 00:33:35.893
That’s good. That’s good.

00:33:36.273 –> 00:33:43.353
For me, I actually have found surprisingly good results with meta boosted posts.

00:33:43.593 –> 00:33:50.193
So instead of an ad on meta, if I have a post that is doing really well organically,

00:33:50.713 –> 00:33:56.553
a lot of times if I do even just a $10 boosted post and increase the radius,

00:33:56.833 –> 00:33:58.973
I will see even more traction on that.

00:33:58.973 –> 00:34:03.893
So I would say put a $10 boosted post every week, $10, $20, $30,

00:34:04.073 –> 00:34:07.693
$40, and then the rest of that, fidget spinners.

00:34:08.093 –> 00:34:11.993
So when you say meta, do you mean the Facebook and the Instagram?

00:34:12.253 –> 00:34:16.473
The Facebook and the Insta. Okay. Because otherwise it’s just a post about posts.

00:34:16.873 –> 00:34:18.173
Wait, Facebook’s still around?

00:34:18.713 –> 00:34:20.973
Yeah. A meta post.

00:34:22.013 –> 00:34:26.353
Yeah. Okay. Anyway. All right. $10,000. $10,000. $10,000. And yeah,

00:34:26.533 –> 00:34:29.053
so I’m going to get a little bit more strategic here, right?

00:34:29.213 –> 00:34:32.073
I’m going to develop, I’m going to take some of that budget.

00:34:32.293 –> 00:34:37.233
I’m going to allocate it towards direct response, probably do something like register tape, right?

00:34:37.333 –> 00:34:40.933
Because I’m a pizza restaurant and we kick ass for pizza restaurants.

00:34:41.213 –> 00:34:46.273
And then I’m going to take a portion of that budget and work on Brandon,

00:34:46.493 –> 00:34:49.093
right? I want to get my name out there with social media, Instagram.

00:34:49.915 –> 00:34:55.615
Maybe sponsor some events, do some display advertising, and I’ll take a little

00:34:55.615 –> 00:34:59.615
portion of that budget and experiment with some different things,

00:34:59.795 –> 00:35:01.415
maybe some Google AdWords.

00:35:01.855 –> 00:35:05.515
But yeah, I think that’s where I’m going to be. I like it.

00:35:05.875 –> 00:35:08.575
Oh, I forgot about loyalty. We’ll figure that out. Very similarly,

00:35:08.615 –> 00:35:14.775
I would go with some kind of event that’s maybe $2,000, gets VIPs.

00:35:15.455 –> 00:35:18.895
A portion of that, I would probably go the influencer route.

00:35:18.895 –> 00:35:24.655
Let’s get a face that’s really popular associated with Craig’s Restaurant.

00:35:24.995 –> 00:35:28.095
And then anything that’s left, yeah, I would also do tape.

00:35:28.495 –> 00:35:32.255
All right. First month for my first $10,000, I update my bathrooms,

00:35:32.595 –> 00:35:35.295
wash them, clean them, get them painted. Oh, man.

00:35:35.455 –> 00:35:39.815
I get new table things, and I make sure that every table is not wobbly and doesn’t

00:35:39.815 –> 00:35:42.995
have napkins under it. So I do all my stuff for the first month.

00:35:43.235 –> 00:35:46.595
Second month, $10,000, I invest in technology.

00:35:46.595 –> 00:35:52.115
So I get a kick-ass, we can say ass, we’re saying ass, kick-ass loyalty program,

00:35:52.255 –> 00:35:56.635
make sure it really works and changes consumer behavior and start really getting,

00:35:56.795 –> 00:35:58.555
making sure that I build up that database,

00:35:58.995 –> 00:36:03.135
do some extra incentives for my staff so that they get in the habit of asking

00:36:03.135 –> 00:36:09.095
for information from their customers, as well as getting, asking for reviews by name.

00:36:09.315 –> 00:36:14.835
The third month, I’m going to start breaking it up into a series of advertising

00:36:14.835 –> 00:36:18.915
campaigns, starting with register tape if there is an appropriate grocery store

00:36:18.915 –> 00:36:20.635
because that’s my first best advertising option.

00:36:21.175 –> 00:36:24.175
Second, oh, sorry. Yeah, no, I can do that in third month. In third month,

00:36:24.335 –> 00:36:26.015
second and third month, I’m going to redo my website.

00:36:26.335 –> 00:36:30.295
And then I’m, so by third month, I’m running my register tape ad.

00:36:30.475 –> 00:36:33.595
I’m going to start doing digital ads on layering that on top.

00:36:33.735 –> 00:36:37.655
And I’m going to have somebody, I’m going to pay somebody to help manage all

00:36:37.655 –> 00:36:39.455
this and somebody that really understands it.

00:36:39.675 –> 00:36:43.195
Hopefully I find a one-stop shop company that can do that for me.

00:36:43.575 –> 00:36:49.575
I like that answer better. What is a comprehensive marketing plan?

00:36:50.095 –> 00:36:55.335
Yes. Or what is connection boost with indoor media?

00:36:55.695 –> 00:36:59.135
Well, I like that too, because I just went to the specific.

00:36:59.715 –> 00:37:03.595
How I’m going to spend my money on advertising, but you really worked on the

00:37:03.595 –> 00:37:06.995
foundation and the core pieces that are so fundamental for a business,

00:37:07.155 –> 00:37:11.175
got that situated, and then went out and spent the dollars. Where does marketing

00:37:11.175 –> 00:37:12.595
start? At your business.

00:37:13.355 –> 00:37:18.055
Speaking of, can we increase the budget for this podcast? It’s now $30 million an episode.

00:37:18.640 –> 00:37:26.228
Music.