The Bounce Rate Podcast

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Look close most of the things that we

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call authentic today started as someone breaking

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the rules and doing it differently this episode

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we look at how products evolve how culture adapts

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and why the version that sticks isn’t always the

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first it’s the one that resonates now

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today we’re actually zeroing on zeroing in

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on a very specific product that is

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very polarizing and i’m confident based

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on our previous episodes we have strong feelings within

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this room we’re we’re talking about yub

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nub no we’re we’re done talking about the

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ewok celebration song yub nub it’s a great it’s a

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crowning achievement of john williams but we are we are talking about i look

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i looked that up i pulled a jamie joe rogan i didn’t i will we’ll get into it

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later this is never gonna end today we’re talking about deep dish pizza i.

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Started off not liking deep dish pizza and then i had some

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really good deep dish pizza and i’m like oh this is great now to be

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fair it was in texas so i

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don’t know if i can get authentic deep dish pizza what are

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y’all’s positions on deep dish pizza well you’re gonna

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have to be more specific are we talking detroit style deep

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dish or are we talking chicago style i believe that

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deep dish is the one that looks like

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a pie and has tomato sauce on

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the top versus chicago that was detroit style

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i heard chicago style okay detroit style is

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square right and and there

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is sauce on the time there’s lots of sauce but there’s cheese on top

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too but it doesn’t look like a a chicago style

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is like a big it’s like a pie pan i mean it’s really a pizza pie and with a

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crust that goes up the sides and then it’s just yeah a whole layer of tomato

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sauce i used to love that stuff and i still love it but i like the thin crust

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because i can eat more of the cheese and more because I get full with all that bread.

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You know what I mean? So I’m like, no, I’ve converted to a thinner crust, but it’s delicious.

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Do you feel like you’ll eat a thin crust pizza and you’re like,

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wow, I wish I could have a whole other thin crust pizza?

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If it’s cracker thin, yeah, sure. But if it’s normal thin, then I’m good.

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Because you’re hitting on one of the points that we’re going to talk about today

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in the invention of deep dish. I agree.

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There’s the Detroit style where it looks like puffy bread, and you’ve got like

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three different lanes of sauce on top.

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You’re correct. Today, we’re talking about the straight up pizza pie.

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So we’ve got a thin, basically like pie crust looking thing around the side. That’s just dough.

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The top is covered in tomato sauce.

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One layer below, we have cheese. And then under that, you’ve got toppings.

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So it flipped the script.

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And as, as James mentioned, it is way hardier than, than, than a regular, uh,

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thin crust, or even the floppy New York-style pizza.

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It is a straight-up casserole. It’s a pizza casserole. Yeah,

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it is. Yeah, a lot of people will call it a casserole.

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I must be old because I love casseroles.

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I mean, it depends on the casserole. I mean, of course, right, yeah.

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But they’re my jam. Just put everything in there you need, and you don’t have

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to heat up multiple. Just put it on your plate and eat, man.

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I always thought that it was such a Midwestern.

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Is your family from the Midwest? No, they’re from the… Well,

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my mom is from the Midwest. My dad’s from the South.

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Because the Midwest, like, the cream of mushroom soup was the ingredient in

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almost everything you ate.

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And casseroles were a big thing. About some rhubarb. Strawberry rhubarb pie. Rhubarb.

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Yes, rhubarb’s good. That’s good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s plenty of food items

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that we could do whole episodes about.

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I like that heft whenever… Well, sometimes. times whenever you’re reheating

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like New York style pizza it’s it’s a simple affair reheating.

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Super dense heavy deep dish that can be

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difficult it can be difficult but i think it is the

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best reheated pizza you think so i think if you do

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it right it tastes almost like it

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did when you got it whereas new york style can dry out and be very it’s true

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yeah it retains its moisture yeah so so we because we will have pizza almost

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every sunday for lunch and then we get half of it taken home and then we have

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it for a dinner during the week. Can we do deep dish or?

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We go to, in Houston, we go to Star Pizza, which there, so the,

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like, I think the most famous Chicago pizzeria is Gordano’s, Giordano’s.

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And they have a place in Vegas as well, because I go to Vegas probably more

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than I go to Chicago, which is not much.

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But Star Pizza in Houston has a very similar pizza like that. I’ve had it.

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And so the nice thing is because of all the crust, you can get a smaller pizza

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so it’s cheaper and then we take home half make two meals out of it,

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reheating it is a nightmare we have to preheat the

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oven we preheat the pan we put olive oil on the

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pan oh my gosh yeah we’ll heat we’ll heat the pizza up for a little while then

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we’ll finish it off on uh on the stove whoa because you want that crispy bottom

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again but you need the whole pizza to be heated it’s it’s a lot of work why

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are we talking about pizza it’s a well-known fact It’s a well-known fact that Eric is a pro.

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He’s a fanatic. I’m in a cult for pizza. He’s in a pizza cult.

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I knew he liked pizza. I’m running a cult for pizza. Actually,

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because I make more money as the head of the cult.

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So if you’d like to become part of the cult, send $495.

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Send your wife in $4.95.

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Looking for wife and pizza, send picture of pizza.

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There is a national conversation about authenticity in pizza.

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They say, well, what is Detroit style? What is thin crust? What is this?

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And you hear it all the time about Chicago and deep dish.

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And, you know, oh, well, even just now, we had to determine what deep dish we’re talking about.

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We’ve heard things being called different stuff. and there’s this sort of level

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of requiring authenticity if you know what, you know, how things work or if you’re in the know,

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you should know, oh, well, this is what’s authentic.

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But the truth is Deep Dish did not start off as authentic pizza.

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I’m going to give you some background on like what happened.

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So obviously pizza originated in Naples and it was a thin street food. They put stuff on.

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Italian immigrants brought it to the United States in the late 1800s.

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And it was popular in larger American cities with heavy density of immigrants.

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So what, and listener, if you know otherwise, please comment, send your messages in.

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They say that in 1943, there was a place called Pizzeria Uno that opened in Chicago.

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And it was founded by Ike Sewell and Rick Ricardo. and what it.

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It is believed that they wanted to set out to make a more filling version of

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pizza rather than just the quick.

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How can we make our pizza go further? Yeah. How can we make this?

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Yeah. How can we make this fill people up with a thick crust with cheese placed

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directly on dough versus having the layer of tomato that makes it slip off and

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with meat or toppings layered above?

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And then the tomato sauce on top, which completely inverted our expectations of pizza.

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Turned it upside down. It literally turned it upside down.

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And so the idea was this is going to be heartier. It’s going to be more like

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a meal than a, hey, let me grab a pizza.

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It’s going to be like, oh, here’s a- Which in Chicago you need because when

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it’s negative 26 out, the wind chill is negative 45, you’re not looking for some wimpy pizza.

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If you go in there and you pick up a slice and you walk out,

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it’s frozen by the time you walk out.

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Deep dish is a whole thing. But there’s an ongoing debate about who invented it.

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And you think about the 50s or 40, did you say 47?

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They believe 43. 43. I mean, that’s just not that long ago.

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Gordano’s, the one I referenced, was started in 74, which does not seem.

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I mean, to think of something being authentic style, but really defined by something

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that was created after I was born. Yeah.

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Well, you can go eat your non-authentic deep dish Chicago style pizza with your

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new and drink a new Coke with it. Okay.

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Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Where can I find new Coke? Okay.

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On eBay? On eBay? Probably on eBay. So new Coke was something that they tried

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to lead with some new authenticity, and it sounds like it didn’t work.

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I was not alive when that happened.

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Do you all remember what the vibes were?

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Oh, absolutely. I mean, well, one, it was like the day the earth stood still.

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I mean, it was, because I am a huge Coke, I am as dedicated to Coke as I am to pizza, and…

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I remember at Pepsi Corporate, they took the day off when they announced New Coke. Really?

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Because Pepsi came out and immediately declared, we’ve won, because they made

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New Coke taste more like Pepsi. It was a nightmare.

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You know, I do remember New Coke. I think that’s right. It did taste more like

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Pepsi. There’s no doubt. There’s no doubt. They’re like, yeah.

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Yeah. And obviously, it completely backfired for Coke.

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It did not. But Coke walked back, walked it back, still dominate Pepsi.

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Yeah. Right. So that’s the question.

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You know, sometimes you can try to be authentic and create and be innovative with your products.

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And then you create a national sensation.

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And in other situations, you’re a national, you have a national moment of embarrassment.

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It can be difficult to determine, hey, when is it time to stick with the old

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ways that we’ve already established?

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And when is it time to completely shake things up in our products?

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And really the question is, how do you know?

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Yeah, it’s an interesting question because, I mean, we’re constantly like,

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you have to keep evolving.

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You got to keep being better, right? But then where do you know to keep your

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authenticity versus changing?

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I would say if you have a product and people love it, I’m probably not messing with that product.

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It’s a challenge. I might do things around it. Go ahead.

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Well, I was going to say, I think the answer to this dates back from the 16th century. Okay.

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With William Shakespeare, who said, to thy own self be true.

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And I think that’s the difference. I can come in and innovate from scratch.

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Hey, we’re going to do this really funky pizza. It’s deep dish.

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It’s heartier. It’s a new thing, whatever. And it becomes a new classic. Right.

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If I am Coke, who has prided themselves and always harkened back,

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I mean, the design of their bottles were a reflection back to when Coke first

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came out, when they actually had cocaine in.

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I mean, it was all this heavy. You find that on eBay, too.

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Cocaine? No. Okay. Didn’t think so. Because I’ve looked.

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No. And so all this harkening back to the original taste, this great,

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you know, this thing that, and Roger, you’d brought up the point, like.

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Some companies don’t, won’t patent their stuff because if you patent it, the secret’s out.

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Coke has never patented the recipe for Coke. They’ve just kept it secret because

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they want to keep it indefinitely because it’s such a big thing.

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Here they are. They’re even, even when new Coke came out and it was the eighties,

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I think, right? Sounds about right. Yeah.

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And it comes out and it’s Coke is saying, oh yeah, screw all that.

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We’re going to go with this new thing and it’s going to be more like Pepsi,

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right? They didn’t actually say the last part, but that’s what they did.

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It’s going to be sweeter, blah, blah, blah.

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And everybody’s like, what? How can you do that? So to your point,

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James, you can’t just become something different.

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Now, there are times where what you were doesn’t work anymore.

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And Pizzeria Uno is one of those cases.

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They were all over the country. I remember eating there. Yeah, they were in Houston.

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We had them in the mall. We had them in all places. Never seen it.

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They have all dried up because the fad moved on.

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Godfather’s Pizza. They were deep dish. I remember Godfather’s. That’s gone, too.

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Yep. There’s a place here in Houston called James Coney Island that serves chili

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cheese hot dogs, the best chili cheese hot dog. And regular hot dogs. By the way.

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Yeah, but why? Chili cheese, man, all the way. Especially for a gluten intolerant

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person, you want the extra. That’s right.

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So they tried to rebrand because they became less and less popular. You know, the…

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Millennials and all these other fruit jobs don’t want to have fruit eaters is what I meant.

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I was like, what are you trying to say? If they’re not eating fruits or nuts, they’re flakes.

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So they- I know, but fruit jobs sounds like a- Fruit jobs. Yeah,

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that’s right. Yeah, yeah.

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That’s Generation X sensibilities right there. So at any rate,

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it’s less popular now, right? I know people don’t want Coney’s anymore.

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And it’s just, they tried to reband. Oh, we’ll be James Coney grill.

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And nobody’s going there for a salad. You have them. That’s great.

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Nobody’s going to do that.

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You can’t make the shift because you have to stay true to who you were.

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Otherwise, you’re going to offend everybody that was your customer.

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And now if you’re going to, but how do you do that? Well, I mean,

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I do think, for example, like if say the hot dogs are just, not enough people are buying hot dogs.

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Well, then you’re going to be forced to make a change, right?

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To try to survive. And it might not work. It might work.

00:14:22.255 –> 00:14:26.375
But, and maybe Coke, their recipe was too expensive. I doubt it.

00:14:26.575 –> 00:14:30.035
Right. But like maybe they did it on for that reason, but who knows?

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I’m sure they’d talk about it, but just to change it, to try to,

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trying to change a product that’s already doing well and popular just because

00:14:39.175 –> 00:14:42.995
you think it might be better. I think history tells you that’s a bad mistake.

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Yeah. Can you think of somebody that succeeded in doing that?

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And start in that start off had a really strong brand and one kind of thing and then shifted.

00:14:55.949 –> 00:15:02.309
So I actually, this just popped in on my mind and that is, have you ever seen

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the tide brand dry cleaners? Yeah.

00:15:06.269 –> 00:15:11.089
So that’s one that I’m like, Oh, interesting. I wonder why we don’t see Prego

00:15:11.089 –> 00:15:16.209
brand restaurants or we don’t see, I don’t know, Windex brand cleaning services.

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And so So that that’s one that I’ve always seen.

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And I’m like, all right, I can totally understand seeing Tide and saying,

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boy, that’s a strong brand.

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They’ve got a lot of money and they are, they care about brands.

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So I’m going to go and take my clothes there on the flip side of things. Is it authentic?

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Is it that authentic go into a dry cleaner with an impossible to clean thing?

00:15:41.389 –> 00:15:46.709
It’s like a family that owns it they give you a ticket you come back and they

00:15:46.709 –> 00:15:52.189
miraculously through some you know secret that they’ve got managed to get your clothes clean.

00:15:53.529 –> 00:15:57.669
That’s one that popped on my head one thing that I would love to have a whole

00:15:57.669 –> 00:16:04.909
episode on are the burrito wars and that is the burrito places you’ve got free birds chipotle,

00:16:06.109 –> 00:16:08.989
codoba burritos oh there’s another one,

00:16:09.637 –> 00:16:14.677
Moe’s. Moe’s. Yeah. And they all basically have the same thing.

00:16:15.217 –> 00:16:22.477
And one thing that I used to love was that when I would first go to Freebirds,

00:16:22.817 –> 00:16:25.597
there were certain things that was like authentic. It was like,

00:16:25.657 –> 00:16:27.377
oh, yeah, this is a Freebirds.

00:16:27.797 –> 00:16:33.877
And, you know, like the Statue of Liberty hanging there on the motorcycle.

00:16:34.017 –> 00:16:35.637
She’s holding a super monster.

00:16:36.077 –> 00:16:39.457
They’re death sauce. And I’m like, oh, I really feel like I’m here.

00:16:39.637 –> 00:16:44.317
So I was not a Chipotle person, but simultaneously people going to Chipotle

00:16:44.317 –> 00:16:47.617
in the early days were having the same experience. They were like,

00:16:47.697 –> 00:16:49.137
oh, this is an authentic Chipotle.

00:16:49.377 –> 00:16:52.557
They’re making the guacamole there. I can see it. And it’s got,

00:16:52.697 –> 00:16:53.597
what are some other things?

00:16:54.137 –> 00:16:58.957
So is authentic here? Because I don’t know that I would say burritos are authentic

00:16:58.957 –> 00:17:04.817
in the sense that they hearken back to a previous thing. But they had a high quality.

00:17:05.017 –> 00:17:08.837
Well, I don’t mean the burritos themselves. I just meant the vibe of the,

00:17:08.837 –> 00:17:13.377
of the place felt like, I don’t know how to explain it.

00:17:13.517 –> 00:17:16.217
It was like. You’re saying they stayed authentic to themselves?

00:17:16.577 –> 00:17:21.597
Yeah. It was, it was saying, I’m saying that, that, oh, what I’m saying is that

00:17:21.597 –> 00:17:27.137
I feel like the burrito places have kind of homogenized a little bit.

00:17:27.397 –> 00:17:30.057
Oh, down to, I mean, to Chipotle and that’s it.

00:17:30.337 –> 00:17:35.697
Yeah. And so like they’ve evened out and there’s less like personality inside

00:17:35.697 –> 00:17:39.257
of it. So it was like that personality of like, this is how we,

00:17:39.317 –> 00:17:41.297
we do things a little bit differently here.

00:17:41.457 –> 00:17:46.057
This is how we do things. We got the, the tomato sauce on top.

00:17:46.357 –> 00:17:50.177
The toppings are below the crust is more like a pie.

00:17:50.357 –> 00:17:54.137
And you’re like, this is very distinct and it feels real.

00:17:54.297 –> 00:17:57.457
And so I think that sometimes when you’re trying to keep up with distinction,

00:17:57.857 –> 00:18:01.537
when you’re trying to keep up with competition, it can be easy to lose that distinction.

00:18:02.057 –> 00:18:08.717
I don’t know. I’ve been sitting here thinking about trying to think of brands or products that have.

00:18:09.565 –> 00:18:12.725
Undergone a big change you know and i’m struggling to

00:18:12.725 –> 00:18:15.905
come up with netflix well netflix

00:18:15.905 –> 00:18:19.325
was started off as the dvds right you

00:18:19.325 –> 00:18:22.265
you through the mail and they

00:18:22.265 –> 00:18:25.165
switched to online but i i feel like they were so young

00:18:25.165 –> 00:18:28.565
at the time and they had to i mean that’s just you know like blockbuster could

00:18:28.565 –> 00:18:31.365
have been them well the thing that was

00:18:31.365 –> 00:18:34.505
different about that i think of makes netflix so

00:18:34.505 –> 00:18:37.385
different today is that they made

00:18:37.385 –> 00:18:40.285
an actual transition that is wasn’t just dvd to

00:18:40.285 –> 00:18:44.365
streaming because that was a format change that probably wasn’t that big a deal

00:18:44.365 –> 00:18:47.245
oh i’m going to stream stuff and everybody’s streaming i don’t have to mail

00:18:47.245 –> 00:18:54.585
dvds back and forth but netflix is really a content company yes they are not

00:18:54.585 –> 00:18:55.885
i mean they weren’t in the beginning

00:18:55.885 –> 00:18:59.845
much a content company as they are anything That is a good point.

00:19:00.065 –> 00:19:06.165
Before they literally sling a product and they morphed into a content company.

00:19:06.265 –> 00:19:11.565
And if Netflix would like to have a comedy special featuring the bounce rate,

00:19:11.645 –> 00:19:14.245
we are happy to go record on Netflix.

00:19:14.245 –> 00:19:18.105
So I’m going to bring up a, speaking of content, that makes me think of another

00:19:18.105 –> 00:19:21.945
thing that’s like authenticity and it has to do with media.

00:19:22.345 –> 00:19:29.065
Does everyone, is anyone familiar with the studio, the movie studio A24? Yeah.

00:19:29.265 –> 00:19:37.785
So that’s one that I feel like, you know, we consume a lot of content as people in the world.

00:19:38.025 –> 00:19:41.645
And I don’t think any Movio studio,

00:19:42.045 –> 00:19:48.325
Movio studio, any movie studio, any film studio puts enough,

00:19:48.665 –> 00:19:54.605
puts as much importance on their authenticity than A24.

00:19:56.265 –> 00:19:59.005
Because A24’s thing is everything’s a little bit dark,

00:19:59.816 –> 00:20:06.216
And I’m like, in terms of the story itself, the lighting, you know,

00:20:06.396 –> 00:20:10.836
it’s got a certain vibe and like the storytelling has a certain quality.

00:20:10.876 –> 00:20:17.516
I feel like anything that’s A24 fits a certain, I don’t want to say mold.

00:20:17.816 –> 00:20:19.376
Well, they’ve defined a genre almost.

00:20:19.796 –> 00:20:24.116
There’s kind of a movie genre called the A24 movie genre. You know,

00:20:24.156 –> 00:20:26.916
it’s kind of like in video games, there’s roguelike games.

00:20:27.136 –> 00:20:31.176
Yeah. It was all defined by this. When you’re like, oh, that’s an A24 movie,

00:20:31.356 –> 00:20:36.936
I have a certain expectation or I expect a certain quality or whatever.

00:20:37.116 –> 00:20:42.056
Or like a Rockstar game. You know, the video game, the Rockstar that does Red

00:20:42.056 –> 00:20:44.216
Dead Redemption and GTA.

00:20:45.036 –> 00:20:51.816
Like those games feel a certain way and they will delay the release of their

00:20:51.816 –> 00:20:54.776
games until it feels exactly that way.

00:20:54.776 –> 00:20:59.896
I think those are two that are like not necessarily food or physical products,

00:21:00.056 –> 00:21:05.496
but a digital product that they put a lot of effort into the product feeling authentic.

00:21:06.076 –> 00:21:11.196
So I think when you’re saying authentic there, though, that’s an authenticity

00:21:11.196 –> 00:21:16.216
that is more about being.

00:21:17.010 –> 00:21:22.770
Representing who you are and staying true to a certain amount of values and,

00:21:22.770 –> 00:21:26.290
you know, a certain level of quality that you want and so forth, right?

00:21:26.430 –> 00:21:35.270
So Chipotle is authentic in the sense that they push their set of fresh food

00:21:35.270 –> 00:21:38.950
and they say, you know, we’re going to chop, make the guacamole here. We’re going to do this.

00:21:39.650 –> 00:21:45.930
Their atmosphere is very streamlined, very typical quick serve restaurant, but that’s their thing.

00:21:46.010 –> 00:21:48.790
And they’re very true that we’re going to have quality ingredients.

00:21:49.030 –> 00:21:54.850
They’re not going to have as much flavor and diversity and so forth as other places like free birds.

00:21:54.990 –> 00:21:59.550
I always felt like free birds had more variety in their tastes than, than Chipotle.

00:21:59.790 –> 00:22:03.930
Uh, but they’re very true to that. So they, they are authentic to themselves.

00:22:04.630 –> 00:22:08.590
I don’t know, but when you talk about the food itself, the products.

00:22:10.006 –> 00:22:14.726
A burrito is not authentic. It’s a made up manufactured Tex-Mex.

00:22:14.946 –> 00:22:17.086
Yeah. Now quick serve restaurant thing.

00:22:17.466 –> 00:22:21.946
And so I do think there’s a big difference in talking about authenticity in

00:22:21.946 –> 00:22:26.246
the way you produce stuff and whether you’re authentic with your customers.

00:22:26.426 –> 00:22:30.906
Oh, sure. Versus are you leaning on and what are your goods and services?

00:22:31.226 –> 00:22:36.706
Are you leaning on something that is authentic or are you innovating? Yeah.

00:22:37.966 –> 00:22:44.726
So we are in Texas and there is a certain food type that.

00:22:45.686 –> 00:22:51.686
Cajun. Yeah. No, no, we, we love our, our New Orleans Ken over there,

00:22:51.686 –> 00:22:57.686
but there is a food type here that authenticity is crucial.

00:22:58.166 –> 00:23:03.566
Fusion. To some people. It is not fusion. It is barbecue. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.

00:23:03.926 –> 00:23:07.486
And so, you know, when we talk about like that’s that’s kind of Texas’s version

00:23:07.486 –> 00:23:10.606
of. All right. Is it authentic Texas barbecue?

00:23:10.886 –> 00:23:14.866
Well, did you smoke with hickory or mesquite? There’s some people that say if

00:23:14.866 –> 00:23:18.806
you smoke with hickory, you’re out. Pecan, you’re out. It must be mesquite.

00:23:19.066 –> 00:23:22.506
Then there’s people that say, all right, what kind of sauce?

00:23:23.046 –> 00:23:24.646
Do you even use sauce?

00:23:25.617 –> 00:23:29.757
Then if it’s authentic, what does it come with?

00:23:29.997 –> 00:23:35.577
Does it come with the whole little pickles, onions thing? Does it include bread? What’s the bread?

00:23:36.797 –> 00:23:42.577
There’s some places that are like it. It must be King’s Hawaiian bread is what comes with barbecue.

00:23:43.737 –> 00:23:47.737
And you can tell down to like a local level.

00:23:48.037 –> 00:23:51.657
Certain communities say, well, this is what’s authentic and this is what we identify.

00:23:51.857 –> 00:24:24.517
Even if the thing is a little bit arbitrary. Right, right. Are you stuck?

00:24:25.397 –> 00:24:31.217
I think you’re stuck either way. Right. I don’t think you, you know, we had Genghis Grill.

00:24:31.597 –> 00:24:33.637
We talked about this with Mongol Barbecue.

00:24:34.057 –> 00:24:36.917
Yes. Which was awesome, a great chain. I really liked them.

00:24:37.837 –> 00:24:46.077
And the founder of that company said that the whole notion came from the Mongolian

00:24:46.077 –> 00:24:48.697
army would cook on their shields from battle.

00:24:48.737 –> 00:24:51.677
And they would heat up the shield and then they’d just throw all the ingredients

00:24:51.677 –> 00:24:55.597
on top. And that’s why he had this big flat thing that people rotate around.

00:24:56.017 –> 00:25:02.557
Well, turns out he’s from Taiwan. He stole the idea from the Japanese and implemented

00:25:02.557 –> 00:25:04.237
it in the United States. It was all made up.

00:25:04.867 –> 00:25:08.827
You can’t. But once they went down that path, and it was fine that he made up

00:25:08.827 –> 00:25:11.507
the story about the Mongolians and whatnot. It didn’t really matter.

00:25:11.887 –> 00:25:16.027
People liked it, but it became kind of a fad and went away.

00:25:16.427 –> 00:25:20.287
There was no pivoting. You couldn’t pivot. He couldn’t start being like,

00:25:20.367 –> 00:25:23.487
well, we’re the stir fry guys now. Nope, nope, nope. That’s not going to work.

00:25:24.227 –> 00:25:29.767
So I think you’re stuck either way, but there is a question about how are you marketing yourself?

00:25:29.947 –> 00:25:34.687
So talking about authenticity, being true to your own self, and being honest

00:25:34.687 –> 00:25:39.907
with your customers, are we holding to an outside standard, which is,

00:25:40.147 –> 00:25:41.887
I think, having an authentic product?

00:25:41.887 –> 00:25:48.727
Do I have a pizza that would be very similar if you were to go to Napoli and have pizza there?

00:25:48.867 –> 00:25:51.487
That’s a true Napolitan.

00:25:52.667 –> 00:25:54.307
Napolitan? Napoleon?

00:25:55.547 –> 00:26:01.887
Napoleon? We’ll look it up. Do I have a pizza that is very similar to what you

00:26:01.887 –> 00:26:05.487
would get in Italy, and that is the basis of my business?

00:26:05.627 –> 00:26:12.067
Or have I drawn a line in the sand and said, nope, I’m doing this new thing.

00:26:12.067 –> 00:26:15.067
It’s a pizza sandwich we have crust on the top and the bottom.

00:26:15.907 –> 00:26:20.207
And that’s fine. You can do either. You can be authentic in the way you present

00:26:20.207 –> 00:26:26.007
that, but your food, your product and goods or services might not be authentic

00:26:26.007 –> 00:26:29.447
in the sense that it’s hearkening back to a true history and tradition.

00:26:29.447 –> 00:26:33.887
I’ve got one more non-food because this occurred to me as we were talking.

00:26:33.967 –> 00:26:38.987
It’s a non-food one, and it’s one that revolutionized an industry.

00:26:40.287 –> 00:26:46.687
And there are people that copied this authentic model that changed everything.

00:26:46.687 –> 00:26:49.267
And it has to do with a product that’s on my face right now.

00:26:49.927 –> 00:26:54.067
Glasses? And that is Warby Parker. Oh, yeah. I have Warby Parker glasses.

00:26:54.067 –> 00:26:59.427
So Warby Parker, they were the first in like my…

00:27:00.627 –> 00:27:03.267
Memory to change the way

00:27:03.267 –> 00:27:05.967
the glasses worked where you know

00:27:05.967 –> 00:27:09.247
glasses had been you go to the

00:27:09.247 –> 00:27:13.107
optometrist you get the exam you’re

00:27:13.107 –> 00:27:16.187
trapped in their showroom they say all right well your insurance

00:27:16.187 –> 00:27:20.087
pays for up to this and then you pick them and they say well you can pay a little

00:27:20.087 –> 00:27:27.147
bit more and get this and warby parker changed the the product because they

00:27:27.147 –> 00:27:29.947
said all right we’re They’re just going to have stylish glasses that you can

00:27:29.947 –> 00:27:34.207
get for a hundred bucks and they change the process, which the, the process,

00:27:34.387 –> 00:27:38.347
you know, we can have a whole other episode about, but whenever you order Warby

00:27:38.347 –> 00:27:43.907
Parker glasses, they come in a case and they always have a cleaning thing and

00:27:43.907 –> 00:27:45.927
they always have a pupillary distance thing.

00:27:46.637 –> 00:27:54.137
Or that might be with the try-on kit, but there is, after they created their, that product.

00:27:54.537 –> 00:27:59.217
There was iBuyDirect, there was Zenni Optical, there was, oh,

00:27:59.237 –> 00:28:02.777
there’s one more that I’m thinking of, but they, there were people that was

00:28:02.777 –> 00:28:06.257
like, all right, well, this is the way this works now. This is the way this product looks.

00:28:06.477 –> 00:28:12.237
So we’re going to do it too. So I took, you know, so I, I have those kinds of glasses as well.

00:28:12.337 –> 00:28:15.177
And when I bought those, I did it the same way I’d

00:28:15.177 –> 00:28:18.517
always bought my glasses which is i went to my optometrist got

00:28:18.517 –> 00:28:21.897
a prescription i used to just walk into lens crafters

00:28:21.897 –> 00:28:25.377
and buy it there and this

00:28:25.377 –> 00:28:28.377
last time i went into walby parker instead

00:28:28.377 –> 00:28:31.037
you went into what what’s really the yeah i went

00:28:31.037 –> 00:28:34.277
into the actual store so they never used to have stores yeah so

00:28:34.277 –> 00:28:37.017
that that and they always in the

00:28:37.017 –> 00:28:40.257
past they were they were typically combined with

00:28:40.257 –> 00:28:43.317
your the doctor the eye doctor in the

00:28:43.317 –> 00:28:46.377
store wasn’t was not always yeah

00:28:46.377 –> 00:28:50.517
i think that was the change right like you would do your eye exam and then they’d

00:28:50.517 –> 00:28:54.517
put pressure to buy glasses yeah yeah that that when i was growing up it was

00:28:54.517 –> 00:28:58.977
always that when i first heard about warby parker it was a it was an online

00:28:58.977 –> 00:29:03.037
thing and i was like why would i buy glasses on the internet if i can’t try

00:29:03.037 –> 00:29:04.517
them on And I learned, oh,

00:29:04.757 –> 00:29:07.497
they let you, they literally shipped them to you.

00:29:07.657 –> 00:29:14.357
So I think, was it the, I think that the Warby Parker physical locations,

00:29:14.357 –> 00:29:18.837
it was not how it started off, I believe. No, you’re probably right.

00:29:19.117 –> 00:29:23.337
But that is interesting that they said, you know what? Someone wants an authentic

00:29:23.337 –> 00:29:24.817
LensCrafters experience.

00:29:25.277 –> 00:29:28.617
We now have the capital to do that as well. Yeah.

00:29:29.641 –> 00:29:34.721
Yeah. So I, I, what I’m hearing from everybody here and what I think this really

00:29:34.721 –> 00:29:40.461
resonates for me is two forms of authenticity. There’s being authentic in the

00:29:40.461 –> 00:29:44.281
sense of hearkening back to something else that’s historical.

00:29:44.381 –> 00:29:49.541
And that can be, you know, the traditional, what the traditional trail riders

00:29:49.541 –> 00:29:53.601
had as barbecue in Texas, right? That’s traditional.

00:29:54.001 –> 00:29:57.801
So traditional and authentic can be used as synonyms in that case.

00:29:57.801 –> 00:30:01.881
And you can pick one or the other.

00:30:02.021 –> 00:30:06.081
You can say, I’m going to be traditional and this is traditional Chinese food

00:30:06.081 –> 00:30:09.221
or it’s Pei Wei, right? You can go either way. It doesn’t really matter.

00:30:09.781 –> 00:30:14.501
You’re going to find it whether it works or not. And hopefully you find a market

00:30:14.501 –> 00:30:15.741
that everybody likes your stuff.

00:30:15.861 –> 00:30:23.621
So you can be a Chipotle, still going strong, looks good, certainly not traditional. You can be Coke.

00:30:24.401 –> 00:30:28.201
Boy, they learned their lesson. They needed to be traditional and they needed to stick to their roots.

00:30:28.541 –> 00:30:35.021
Then there’s authenticity in yourself. So being authentic with your customers

00:30:35.021 –> 00:30:38.981
is being true to your core values and who you were.

00:30:39.161 –> 00:30:43.301
And that is something that is almost impossible to change because it looks like

00:30:43.301 –> 00:30:44.881
you’re doing a bait and switch.

00:30:45.621 –> 00:30:50.921
If I have been cracker, even Cracker Barrel, which we’ve talked about before.

00:30:51.721 –> 00:30:58.061
Tried a very minor change and people thought, holy crap, oh my God,

00:30:58.461 –> 00:31:00.541
they’re now being a political something.

00:31:00.821 –> 00:31:04.441
This isn’t who Cracker Barrel was.

00:31:04.821 –> 00:31:06.521
They’re not being true to themselves.

00:31:07.181 –> 00:31:11.121
I’m like, you changed your logo. Come on. It’s the same food.

00:31:11.641 –> 00:31:17.641
And boy, people would not have it. Boy, that will get people off you faster than the death of a fad.

00:31:18.501 –> 00:31:22.841
Yeah. And then there’s authenticity in your marketing. Yeah.

00:31:25.015 –> 00:31:27.515
Are we going to talk about that next time? Well, I think we’re,

00:31:27.535 –> 00:31:30.015
I don’t know. I mean, I think we’re covering a lot of ground.

00:31:30.035 –> 00:31:32.555
That is being authentic with your customers. Right.

00:31:32.955 –> 00:31:35.135
There’d be a natural extension to do that in your marketing.

00:31:35.315 –> 00:31:38.795
And I wonder, you know, with the world we’re going into, if that’s going to,

00:31:38.935 –> 00:31:44.155
if being authentic to your brand is going to be more important going forward.

00:31:44.655 –> 00:31:49.355
I don’t know. You know what I mean? With the world of AI and everything going on, like, I don’t know.

00:31:49.515 –> 00:31:53.775
You know what I mean? I just wonder if that, Because I think brands that have

00:31:53.775 –> 00:31:59.635
a brand and they’re authentic to it, it’s a great tool for marketing.

00:32:00.015 –> 00:32:06.475
I would almost go so far to say that if you’re not, is that if you have a strong

00:32:06.475 –> 00:32:10.795
brand, you are being authentic. That’s true. I mean, a brand is your, yeah.

00:32:11.115 –> 00:32:17.655
A strong brand is an indication, is the symptom of being authentic with your

00:32:17.655 –> 00:32:21.595
customers. because you can’t have a brand that’s moving all over the map.

00:32:21.735 –> 00:32:27.075
I can’t be McDonald’s and Roos Chris at the same time. Right. It’s not possible.

00:32:27.475 –> 00:32:31.915
So I have to project my brand. That is the reflection of my values.

00:32:31.915 –> 00:32:35.435
If I’m not living up to those values, it’s not going to be a strong brand because

00:32:35.435 –> 00:32:39.175
every time I go to McDonald’s and they charge me $65 for a steak, I’m going to say what?

00:32:40.055 –> 00:32:46.335
And, but if they advertise as, you know, 9 billion or trillion sold or however

00:32:46.335 –> 00:32:49.535
money it is, And they, you know, and they have the kids meal and so forth.

00:32:49.535 –> 00:32:51.195
And I go and I have that same experience.

00:32:51.535 –> 00:32:54.215
They’re being true to themselves. Strong brand at all lines.

00:32:54.315 –> 00:32:56.595
And it’s going to work. So let me rephrase my question.

00:32:56.775 –> 00:33:00.575
Okay. Going forward, is it going to be more important to have a brand?

00:33:02.560 –> 00:33:06.060
Because there are a lot of businesses out there that don’t really have a brand, right?

00:33:06.140 –> 00:33:10.020
Like especially small businesses, they just pop up a sign, they sell these things

00:33:10.020 –> 00:33:12.400
and, you know, they haven’t really thought out like who they are.

00:33:12.840 –> 00:33:15.440
I think we’ll find out next time.

00:33:16.040 –> 00:33:20.900
Yeah, that’s a big question is what is the brand for a local business?

00:33:21.400 –> 00:33:26.360
I would say that they do have a brand. it doesn’t get conveyed the same way

00:33:26.360 –> 00:33:33.020
that a large corporation does it or a regional or a national company does it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:33.720 –> 00:33:38.740
Big question there. And then personal brand. And then, and then where are we going for lunch?

00:33:38.880 –> 00:33:41.840
These are questions to be answered soon. Definitely pizza. I mean, gosh.

00:33:42.500 –> 00:33:46.300
I mean, I would have picked Mongolian barbecue, but they’re gone. Gone.

00:33:47.440 –> 00:33:51.760
So be authentic to yourself. Trust your tastes. Trust your customers.

00:33:52.260 –> 00:33:54.980
Don’t give in to the fear that you’re going to disappear into obscurity.

00:33:56.180 –> 00:34:00.560
Authenticity is what you build up in yourself. And also remember,

00:34:00.720 –> 00:34:03.260
authenticity is local. It’s not universal.

00:34:03.580 –> 00:34:08.260
There’s no single true version of something. It’s only what fits a place,

00:34:08.440 –> 00:34:11.380
a people, and a movement. And a crust.

00:34:12.500 –> 00:34:17.320
A deep, deep, deep crust. Some deep questions, some deeper crusts.